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Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, you say in your books so many times that somehow or other we have fallen into this material world due to our enviousness or our independence.

Srila Prabhupada: Many. There are many reasons.

Devotee: I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we, in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Krishna--and in that position, that, original position of full knowledge and full bliss--and being in our eternal nature . . . Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how Maya works, somewhat. But, if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how Maya works and . . . How I might fall?

Srila Prabhupada: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiranyakasipu, Hiranyaksa? They were Krishna's Doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiranyakasipu or Hiranyaksa?

Devotee: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada: So how they did fall? They are from Vaikuntha. They are Krishna's personal associates, keeping . . . the Doorkeepers. How did they fell down? Anyway, there is chance of falling down at any moment.

Devotee: Well, in His family, they wanted to enjoy the material world?

Srila Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So, because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krishna. Therefore, we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment. Iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. Find out this verse. (emphasis added)

Pusta Krishna Swami: iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata sarva-bhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa: "O scion of Bharata, O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."

Srila Prabhupada: Purport?

Pusta Krishna Swami: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, Who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate, the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Sri Krishna appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Srila Prabhupada: So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that--"Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?"--I immediately  fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, (but) sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking. (emphases added)

Vipina Purandara prabhu: Why doesn't Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada: He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this.

Vipina Purandara prabhu: Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that?

Srila Prabhupada: That means you lose your independence.

Vipina Purandara: And no love.

Srila Prabhupada: That is force . . . In Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!" Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver--"You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. . . Why one is called lover, another is called rape?

Vipina Purandara prabhu: But isn't it by force anyway? If we don't love Krishna, we suffer.

Srila Prabhupada: That is your business. You'll suffer. But that Krishna does not force you. He says the real, "You love me, you'll be happy. If you don't love, you suffer." But that is your business.

Vipina Purandara prabhu: So, what is the choice?

Srila Prabhupada: Choice is yours. If you are rascal, you don't make the choice, the best choice. You suffer. The rascals, they suffer. And intelligent men, they do not suffer. If you are intelligent, then Krishna says that, "You surrender to Me." Uou surrender, then you are intelligent. If you are rascal, then you reject and you suffer. When a father says to his rascal son, "My dear son, you just hear me, do like this, you'll be happy." If he does not do it, he'll suffer. There is no other alternative.

Guest: Srila Srila Prabhupada, why is the material world made on the level of a jailhouse? It's made on the level of a jailhouse, that, I've been told, the attitude of a jail, instead of the attitude . . .

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, because there will be so many criminals. Therefore, government has to construct a jailhouse. It is not government's desire. It is expensive, unnecessary. But because there are rascals who will become criminal, the government has jailhouse. So one who wants to remain independent of Krishna, for them there is material world, "All right, you remain here."

Vipina Purandara prabhu: We also say that Krishna is fulfilling the desires of every living entity. So if we want to enjoy independent of Krishna, why doesn't He let us really enjoy independent of Him?

Srila Prabhupada: That is not possible. That is Maya; it is called (Maya). You are not enjoyer, you are servant. Because you are willing to become enjoyer, you suffer, that's all. You are not enjoyer.

Vipina Purandara prabhu: Then He's not fulfilling the desire.

Srila Prabhupada: No, you wanted to enjoy--enjoy at your risk. Sometimes you'll become the king of heaven, and sometimes you become the germs in the stool.

Vipina Purandara prabhu: Hmmm, enjoy at your risk.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Vipina Purandara prabhu: Instead of under His protection, you enjoy at your risk.

Srila Prabhupada: Therefore He advises, "Rascal, you give up all this enjoying spirit. You just surrender to Me. You'll be happy." But we don't accept it. Therefore, sometimes we are in the heavenly kingdom, sometimes as a worm in the stool. That is going on. That is your risk. Excerpt from an Evening Darsana on July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.

His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, the shaktyavesh-avatar of bhakti-shakti and the current or most recent Sampradaya Acharya in our line of the parampara, is answering the origination question . He is making a very self-evident, forceful presentation:

“So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that--"Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?"--I immediately  fall down.”

“ . . . we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment.”  

Displeasing the Sampradaya Acharya leads to suffering. We did not originate in Mahesh Dhama, although a conditioned living entity may go there after escaping the material world.  We originated in either Goloka Vrindavan or Vaikuntha. Anyone who cannot accept the Sampradya Acharya’s siddhanta in connection to this essential pillar of Vaishnava philosophy—and who preaches against this siddhanta explicitly given to us by Srila Prabhupada--can only be pushing a very strong (bala) form of ignorance (avidya).  Such nescience has been the staple of both the so-called Gaudiya Matha--as well as its illegitimate offspring, the Neo-Gaudiya Matha--for many years now, and it has degraded countless devotees.  Accept the origination siddhanta of Srila Prabhupada, and you will not have to suffer. OM TAT SAT.

Quotes from the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada are copyright by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust