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| OUR ORIGINAL RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA: A FOLLOW-UP
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When there is a
dispute within Krishna conscious circles, we should look for a spiritual
authority who can resolve it. We Are All Originally Krishna Conscious Entities
was not so much about settling the origination controversy as it was about
determining final source of authority. The convictions of the opposite party
are firmly held and almost certainly will not change. Therefore, my emphasis
was on who is competent to give final judgment. The conclusion must be that our
most recent sampradaya-acharya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada, is that final arbiter. This is validated quite nicely by Mahesh
Raja prabhu: “We consequently
have to accept Srila Prabhupada’s words as FINAL.” My Bhakta Never Perishes by Mahesh Raja In his article,
Mahesh Raja contra-indicates interpretations of alleged writings from previous
acaryas. These writings notwithstanding, Srila Prabhupada is the most recent
mahabhagavat of our Gaudiya Vaishnava parampara. Therefore, he remains the
representative of all those previous acharyas, unless and until another
mahabhagavata in our line clearly manifests. Prabhupada’s conclusions on all
points of siddhanta are non-different from the disciplic succession. In other
words, if anyone can definitively tell us what the conclusion of the previous
acaryas was, it is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. In this article, all
emphases have been added. Sections from two
purports by His Divine Grace have been cited by the “no-fall” camp, and these
are listed below. They lend apparent credibility to “no-fall”: "...the statement
that a servant of the Lord could fall from Vaikuntha seems unbelievable." and . . . "The
conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet,
for it is the eternal abode." Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 and 3.16.26, purports If there were no other remarks or writings on this topic by His Divine
Grace, this could be considered strong evidence. There are, however, many
other purports and recorded conversations that lend credibility to a
different siddhanta, namely that the conditioned souls were all originally
residents of the spiritual sky: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned . . . Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA? Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada Transcribed as Nectar of the Month, BBT Report, January, 1982. Quoted in our article Before That Even by Kailasa Candra dasa “Of course, everyone has a particular
relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the
present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we
have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being. . . has
a particular
relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the
process of devotional service, one can revive
that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s
constitutional position… We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and
because we are all qualitatively one. ...the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is
to revive our sanatana
occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity... The Lord descends to
reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana
eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita,
Introduction." We can resolve the apparently irreconcilable positions, because,
fortunately, there are several recorded conversations and purports where Srila
Prabhupada was directly asked this question about origination: Devotee: Well, I
believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets
out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of
falling back. Paramahamsa: So we
can come to the spiritual world and return? Translator: The
question is: did we fall in this material world to find some highest pleasure?
His question is: did we fall in the material world to experience something
which is higher? These and
many other quotes provide direct answers to the question. The
“no-fall” party, to my experience, has never confronted, examined, or explained
all of these evidences. These direct answers to the origination controversy
firmly establish Srila Prabhupada’s absolute opinion, and this opinion was
presented by His Divine Grace regularly in his lectures, conversations, and
purports. The motto for his magazine was “Back to Godhead,” indicating that we
have already been there and that his guidance was going to return us there. Any
sincere follower of Srila Prabhupada will accept his statements as conclusive.
If someone cannot accept, then he either has an opinion of his own or is under
the influence of some competing authority. More often than not, in this second
instance, that authority turns out to be someone connected to one of Srila
Prabhupada’s godbrothers. To already be predisposed to certain conclusions, and
then selectively go through Srila Prabhupada’s writings and recordings in order
to support that predisposition, does not look well for a devotee. Such activity
is more in the spirit of the person who only wants the end of the chicken that
gives eggs--and not the one that has to be fed. Pundarikaksa
devi dasi, in one of her recent postings, uses a remark attributed to Srila
Bhaktivinoda Takura and appears to selectively reject a self-evident quote from
Srila Prabhupada cited by Mahesh Raja. Such counter-propaganda is effectively
undermining Prabhupada’s Krishna consciousness movement, established during the
manifest presence of His Divine Grace.
The Prabhupada quote was self-evident and firmly established the origin
of the living entity as being in the spiritual world. Although
superficial blame for this malady can be laid at the feet of his inimical
godbrothers, real fault lies with the initial faithlessness of the eleven
so-called zonal acaryas. It was their blind ambition that caused eventual
complete disregard for Srila Prabhupada’s instructions regarding succession.
That opened the door for the pernicious influence of Prabhupada’s godbrothers,
many of whom were inimical to him, in all of these other areas of potential
controversy. In essence, the zonals did not really believe the mahabhagavat,
thinking their own self-serving concoctions superior. Some devotees, dealt with
severely by the zonals, risked pointing this defect out to them. Ironically,
some of these leading secretaries are still honored and accepted as gurus in a
movement that now can only be called their own. The
continuing controversy Condescending
and brow-beating rhetoric--in the form of blanket accusations of mayavada--is
not in the spirit of genuine Vaishnava/brahminical debate. If someone is going
to accuse his opponent of bringing in conclusions tainted with mayavada, he
should be prepared to demonstrate, with logic and shastra and Prabhupada
reference, how this is so. Otherwise,
it turns into argumentum-ad-hominem, and that can always lead to
vaishnavaparadha. Kundali
prabhu’s whitepaper, entitled Not Even Leaves Fall From Vaikuntha, was
mentioned in some recent postings.
Tendered as a critique of my recent article, Part Two of Purujit
prabhu’s recent postings offered up quotes attributed to Jaiva Dharma: “Maha-Vishnu,
an incarnation of Sankarshana, becoming situated in the jiva-shakti as
Supersoul, manifests the living entities of the material world. All these jivas
(coming from Maha-Vishnu) are disposed to maya. Until they attain the shelter
of the pleasure potency (hladini shakti) of the chit world, by the mercy of the
Lord, they are prone to be defeated by maya. The unlimited conditioned jivas
being defeated by maya remain under the influence of her three modes. Therefore
the principle is that only the jiva-shakti manifests jivas and not the
chit-shakti.” Jaiva
Dharma, Chapter 15 “The atomic conscious jivas, who come out
like rays from Maha-Vishnu’s glance at maya, are also uncountable. Being in
proximity to maya, these jivas see the variegatedness of maya. They have all
the characteristics of the ordinary jivas as described before, yet because of
their atomic nature they sometimes glance marginally towards the spiritual creation
and sometimes towards the material creation. In this marginal state, the jiva
is weak, because he has not yet attained spiritual power by the mercy of the
worshipable Lord. Out of these unlimited jivas, the ones who desire to enjoy
maya remain eternally bound by maya, because of being attached to sense
enjoyment. Those who engage in devotional service to the Lord go to the
spiritual world getting the strength of the chit-shakti by the mercy of the
Lord.” Jaiva Dharma, Chapter
16 Let us always remember that these
English translations of Bengali texts are a bit suspect. Even one word mistranslated could make a
very great difference in interpretation.
Various translations by pandits, whose level of realization has not been
confirmed by our sampradaya-acharya, have the potential to create
problems. We do not have that problem
with Srila Prabhupada (except for changes to his books, but that’s beyond the
scope of this article). The quotes allegedly translated from Jaiva Dharma only indicate that the “the living entities of the material world” (already in the material atmosphere) are manifest from Maha Vishnu. That does not necessarily include all the living entities. In regard to the quote attributed to Jaiva Dharma from Chapter 16, there is no prohibition in it that there are not other Krishna conscious jivas distinct from those “who come out like rays from Maha-Vishnu’s glance at maya.” Although Kundali prabhu draws absolute conclusions from Jaiva Dharma, a more discriminating analysis casts some doubt on the “no-fall” proposition. In articles about this topic on
our Vaishnava Foundation website, Kailasa Candra prabhu makes clear, according
to the writings of Srila Prabhupada, that the real origin of the living
entities cannot be an anaesthetized, non-Krishna conscious state within Maha
Vishnu. That the conditioned souls are all manifest from Maha Vishnu is
verified also by Srila Prabhupada. But is this their ultimate origin?
"As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned . . . Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA? Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada Transcribed as Nectar of the Month, BBT Report, January, 1982. Quoted in our article Before That Even by Kailasa Candra dasa "Jiva is also described as sanatana, eternal, and the Lord is also
described as sanatana in the Eleventh Chapter. We have an intimate
relationship with the Lord . . . the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is
to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana-dharma, which is
the eternal occupation of the living entity . . . the Lord
descends to reclaim all of these fallen,
conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal
sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their
eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord." Bhagavad-gita, Introduction Kailasa Candra prabhu makes clear
that it is illogical for anyone to “revive” devotional consciousness if he
never originally experienced it (prior to some kind of anaesthetized
state). I am here summarizing, with his
permission, some of those logical and shastric understandings from his
articles: When the
followers of “no-fall” are confronted with the teaching that the jiva was
originally in the spiritual world, they find it distasteful. They have the same
reaction when told that the jiva can eternally either properly or improperly
use his free will. They superficially think that this teaching is mayavada,
because it apparently implicates the spiritual world with
illusion--in the context of a conclusion (vada) that Krishna's world contains
illusion (maya). This is a
misunderstanding. Free will is intrinsic to the jiva anywhere, and he can
eternally act upon it. Prabhupada clearly says this. The jiva soul’s free will always is present. Free will has no
meaning outside of the possibility of it being misused at any time. Only if
free will was made null and void could the living entity never fall from the
spiritual world. Spiritual freedom is attained and maintained by proper use of
free will. Freedom to move anywhere and everywhere within the spiritual sky,
and to associate in any way he likes with the other liberated personalities
there, is not in and of itself the same thing as free will. Animals and lower entities have free will covered. Humans, especially in this age, degraded to the point of animal life, have practically lost their free will. All genuine human beings are endowed with free will, and all living entities more advanced than humans have free will. Srila Prabhupada
points to misuse of free will in the abovementioned quote from the Cheviot
Hills morning walk. He
says that it is the cause of the jiva’s falldown. The followers
of “no fall,” on the other hand, claim that free will cannot cause a living
entity to fall from the spiritual world; free will is only relevant for someone
already in the material sphere. According to this mode, even if someone wanted
to come to the material atmosphere from the spiritual world, Krishna affords no
intrinsic accommodation for that. This idea is not supported by Srila Prabhupada: Bhaktijana: When the souls
that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence? Brahmananda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender? Of course, there is a verse in the Bhagavad-gita that appears to buttress the “no-fall” siddhanta: “That abode of Mine is not illumined by the
sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this
material world.” Bhagavad-gita 15.6 Srila Prabhupada further elaborates on this important verse: Devotee: Well, I
believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets
out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of
falling back. As Srila
Prabhupada writes, once one has experienced the misery of the material world,
he keeps perfect intelligence to not misuse his free will again. It is these
experienced souls who will never return or fall from Vaikuntha. Acyutananda: .....But in the Gita, it says, "Once coming there, he never returns." There have been assertions by the
“no fall” camp that origination from the spiritual world is not supported in
Vedic scriptures. From the following lecture, Srila Prabhupada again cites the
verse from Prema Vivarta
explaining the cause of the living entities original fall to the material
world: Acyutananda: What is the first birth? What is the cause
of the first birth? To renovate something means to
restore it to its original status. In that context, there is this verse from
the Srimad Bhagavatam: “Only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the
Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional
state. Whoever is able to renovate
such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and
he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31 Support for the idea of origin in
the spiritual world has also been attributed to an English translation of Prema-pradipa by Srila
Bhaktivinode Thakura, as well as an English translation of Sri Caitanya’s Teachings by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati
Gosvami Prabhupada: “However,
because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original
spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted
reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83 “It is the
jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having
deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire
for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true
wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get
back his pure essential nature . . .” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, page
323. The previous acaryas were not
recorded on modern technological equipment; all we have are English
translations of their writings. In an apparent attempt to minimize some of
Srila Prabhupada’s statements, various adherents of “no fall” minimize Srila
Prabhupada’s conversations and lectures, alleging that they do not carry the
same weight as his books or the Vedic shastras. It is not that a pure devotee
somehow changes his conclusions from one platform or medium to another; such
thinking is actually offensive. Sri Krishna has sent his pure devotee to
deliver us and rectify our mistaken beliefs. He is competent to give final
judgment on this issue of the origination of the jiva. In his article Jiva's "Fall",
Mathuramandala Das Brahmachari believes that Srila Prabhupada, as a ruse, only claimed that souls originated in the
spiritual world. In the words of Brahmachari, that conception was “easier for
the laymen to grasp.” Although this does not go as far as the more aggressive
“no-fall” advocates (who assert that Srila Prabhupada deliberately misled his
Jewish and Christian followers), it has the same implication. The “layman”
designation makes a distinction between them (ordinary devotees) and those
above and beyond them, implying that Srila Prabhupada maintained these same
designations. These kinds of projections onto the vision, intention, and mood
of His Divine Grace gravitate toward gurvaparadha. Srila Prabhupada himself was the
best Christian, and, as an example of this, he quotes a very famous Christian
writer, namely Milton: “By the grace of God, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere -- either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita , Adi Lila 5.22, Purport Following in the footsteps of His
Divine Grace, we have humbly pointed out that the living entity may have subsequently
fallen--more than just once--from the brahmajyoti. But, before that even, he was personally with the Lord in a
particular eternal relationship. We
can’t know when or how the living entity had that original relationship covered
over, so there’s no use perpetually arguing on this point. The vada of the
“no-fall” school does not appear to actually be representative of our Gaudiya
Vaishnava disciplic succession--not according to the siddhanta promulgated by Srila
Prabhupada. Let us all repeatedly bow to his lotus feet and accept him as competent
to give final judgment on this controversial issue. “Since we cannot trace out when we have
become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take
care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence--as much as a
patient should take care for treating his disease more--and less waste his time
in finding out the cause of his disease.”
Letter to Upendra, 10-27-69 OM
TAT SAT Quotes from the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada are copyright by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust |